From what we are told, the Gift of Men releases men from the woes of this world and frees them to visit Illuvatar's glory in the next. They will take part in the singing-in of the next world.
Elves, on the other hand, are bound to Arda until the world ends. The get to: Hang out in Valinor, hang out in the Halls of Mandos, or diminish and eventually turn into ghosts if they choose to remain in Middle Earth too long. Furthermore, to the elves, nothing beyond the span of Arda is promised. For all they know, their spirits fade into oblivion with the end of Arda- it's a matter of estel for them that Illuvatar wouldn't not abandon them in such a way.
In a somewhat ironic matter, probably intended by Tolkien, the spiritual state of affairs in Arda is somewhat the reverse of what it seems at first: Men are blessed with truly eternal life and elves get promised only life as long as Arda itself, and anything past that they take on faith.
If this is widely believed amongst the elves, why would a half-elf choose to cast their lot with the elves? In particular, a half-elf such as Elrond who (eventually, anyway) was known for great knowledge and wisdom, and presumably would have enough contact with those who visited Valinor to have some good information on the matter.
I suppose a half-elf could be ignorant of the situation (but there are a lot quotes about the wise knowing what is really going on). Moreover, I suppose the half-elf could have extremly strong faith that the spirits of the elves will be preserved by Illuvatar past the end of Arda that he'd take the bet, but still...
I'm not sure if Tolkien ever addressed this issue for any particular half-elf, nor even if he divulged how much of the "true theology" was known to the wisest of elves and how much was kept hidden. Anyway, I just thought I'd like to bring the topic up: It's not the slam-dunk decision most people think it would be on a first reading of the LoTR.
Very interesting thoughts steel. Are we ever given reasons why they would choose to be mortal though? Luthien and Arwen chose mortality because they had mortal husbands. As for Elros - perhaps he chose mortality because there was the added bonus of being the first King of Numenor thrown in?
Personally speaking I think I'd choose to be an elf. I'd sooner weather out all the Ages of Arda because I know that in the end Arda will cease and the elves will be assigned an unknown role in 'what comes after'. It isn't as though they are literally 'stuck 'for all eternity.
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Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!
I agree with Glorfindel about the reasons behind Elros' choice to be of Man-kind. He would be granted a life three times that of lesser men and would rise to be a king for he did have, at one point, the same prowess of wisdom and knowledge as Elrond did. He could rule over lesser men and have much glory and power. I think that was the real draw for Elros...Power. That is the only reason I think someone would give up an opportunity for immortality. Or I should say immortality by mortal standards...
Seems I have heard from various sources (particularly spiritual ones) that eternal life is an option for Men.
The idea of being an Elf has its appeal too. Whether in a forest like Lothlorien or a keep like Rivendell, living there in the company of other elves sounds pretty good.
But then again ... I am a Bear ... and an Elf-Friend ... and that is good enough for me.
Do you think Tolkien would have it any other way?
-- Edited by Bear on Thursday 12th of January 2012 05:48:09 PM
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Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit Called or uncalled, God is present
Even though Tolkien thought of himself as being more "hobbitish" in his manner and likes, look how much he wrote about the Elves. So much of his works brought this Elder race to life. The Hobbits too, of course. But he wrote that on falling asleep he would often dream and in the morning he would write down what he called .....the "something" latin meaning the early beginnings of the Noldorin High Elven language. Words are escaping me right now.
Elves were the first born and called the Children of Eru. I can see why Elrond and maybe even his sons would choose to take on the nature of the Elves. I really cannot see, after reading Tolkien's works, how Eru would let this race pass away into nothingness. It would in a phrase, "go against the grain".
For myself, something about Tolkien's Elves resonates strongly with me. And Bear is indeed a true Friend of the Elves. We cherish him greatly.
"Some argued that, although integral and unique (as Eru from whom they directly proceeded), each fea, being created, was finite, and might therefore be also of finite duration. It was not destructible within its appointed term, but when that was reached it ceased to be; or ceased to have any more experience, and 'resided only in the Past.
But they saw that thisdid not provide any escape. For, even if an Elvish fea was able 'consciously' to dwell in or contemplate the Past, this would be a condition wholly unsatisfying to its desire. (Reference to Author's Note 8) The Elves had (as they said themselves) a 'great talent' for memory, but this tended to regret rather than to joy. Also, however long the History of the Elves might become before it ended, it would be an object of too limited range. To be perpetually 'imprisoned in a tale' (as they said), even if it was a very great tale ending triumphantly, would become a torment.(5) For greater than the talent of memory was the Elvish talent for making, and for discovery. The Elvish fea was above all designed to make things in co-operation with its hroa.
Therefore in the last resort the Elves were obliged to rest on 'naked estel' (as they said): the trust in Eru, that whatever He designed beyond the End would be recognized by each fea as wholly satisfying (at the least). Probably it would contain joys unforeseeable. But they remained in the belief that it would remain in intelligible relation with their present nature and desires, proceed from them, and include them." Morgoth's Ring
Interesting stuff.
-- Edited by Glorfindel1235 on Sunday 15th of January 2012 11:10:01 PM
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Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!
As beings who had a "talent for making, and for discovery",and (as the Elves said of themselves) a great talent for memory', tending 'to regret rather than to joy', then their experience in the here and now would be what made their life worth living. The key word is "experience".
"Each fea, being created, was finite, and might therefore be also of finite duration. It was not destructible within its appointed term, but when that was reached it ceased to be; or ceased to have any more experience, and 'resided only in the Past."
Their memory may have been of greatest strength, filled with the sensory, the emotional, and even spiritual enlightenment ... when confronted with the loss of the ability to create and discover (whose roots are in experience) then regret would be their lot.
But in the quote you presented ... there are other strange attributes ... perhaps not "strange" ... and those are the attributes of trust and faith ... that is "the trust in Eru, that whatever He designed beyond the End would be recognized by each fea as wholly satisfying (at the least). Probably it would contain joys unforeseeable. But they remained in the belief that it would remain in intelligible relation with their present nature and desires, proceed from them, and include them."
I think this points to some core values that Tolkien imparts to all of his creations ... at least the noble ones ... those being trust, faith, creativity, modest delight in the sensory, respect and knowledge of the past, and the willingness to explore and embrace what we do not know.
And I think that makes a case for being a Man or an Elf.
Well done my friend!!!
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Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit Called or uncalled, God is present
Thanks for the replies. I have thought about this some more in recent weeks. I now think that it would be very unlikely for a half-elf to choose to live as a man so as to ensure life after the span of Arda.
If the particular half-elf in question is largely ignorant of the spiritual state of affairs in Arda (as we "know" them from Tolkien's works and notes), he would likely view things the way the reader first sees them: Men die early, and elves live an indefinite span. What happens next to either is a matter of faith or speculation. So this biases him towards choosing to live as an elf.
If the half-elf in question is well-informed about the spiritual state of affairs in Arda, it would seem to me that such an elf would have very strong faith that Eru provides for the elves after the span of Arda. To me, this seems implied by Tolkien's writings on estel, and his conception of elves as a more perfect, "less fallen" , forerunner to humanity. It seems very unlikely that a half-elf would simultaneously believe that humans are blessed with life beyond Arda, and that elves risk oblivion.
Indeed, a well-informed half-elf would probably believe that his eternal fea is provided for by Eru regardless of the choice, so he makes his choice based on how he would like to live his life and how he feels he can best serve Eru's plan.
The question of how many elves and half-elves were "spiritually well-informed" quickly descends into unanswered questions about the wild elves.... Presumably, all elves in contact with elves who traveled to Valinor would have a good understanding of how thing are.
